This part of the conversation follows the guest through early jobs, a mechanics placement and catering college. He explains how a small income sat alongside his wish to buy trainers and clothes, and describes some of the illegal ways he tried to make extra money.
Work before and after leaving school
The guest says he was already working while he was still at school. He recalls a job at Wimpy in Victoria when he was about fourteen, followed by work at JD Sports on Oxford Street.
Asked how he was paid, he hesitates over some of the details before recalling cash in a small wage packet. His account moves between school and work, with the interviewer asking him to slow down and explain the order of events.
YTS mechanics and catering college
After leaving school, the guest tried a YTS mechanics placement. He remembers being paid about £35 a week plus travel. He says he became frustrated at being sent out for parts, lunches and drinks while another trainee was learning mechanical skills.
He later went to catering college. His grandmother's kitchen had felt like a safe place when he was a child: her home was busy with relatives and visitors, and he would retreat to the kitchen when the noise of the men playing dominoes frightened him. He connects those memories with his enjoyment of cooking.
Money, small crimes and subsidising a habit
The guest describes wanting trainers and clothes that cost more than his weekly income. He says he sold cannabis, sometimes to support his own use and sometimes to make extra money. These are his recollections of the choices he made as a young person.
The interviewer challenges him about whether he knew those choices were wrong. The guest says he knew selling cannabis was against the law, while also describing how ordinary it could feel in the environment around him. The conversation keeps returning to the difference between understanding a rule and deciding how to act.
Adapted from this guest conversation with AI assistance. Each person’s experiences remain their own. The video is the original conversation.
Read the video transcript +
Yeah, so as I was saying, they're continuing. So you're 16 now, yeah? You left school? Because no more school, you don't go to college? No. You don't go to college and you started getting this? No, when I left school, yeah, when I left school, I was working. What was you working? I used to work, well, I don't know, but I borrowed a National Insurance number and I was working. First job I had was in Wimpy in Victoria, yeah? I was about 14 then. 14, so you should have been in school, but now you're working? Yeah, I used to work at West End. Okay, that's a good job, so even though you was like... Wimpy, yeah. But that's not getting paid on your National Insurance then, so no one knows you're working? No, you still get paid. What, into who? I can't remember. No, you get paid into like a bank. No, you get a wage packet. You used to get, I swear you used to get cash in the hand, I can't actually remember. Well, I used to get cash in the hand, yeah, of course I used to get cash in the hand. And then I had a job in JD Sports, that was when JD Sports, there was only one on Oxford Street, yeah? The first was in the Plaza, then it moved, that's the one on the corner before they had the big JD's, what they got now. Yeah, but then when I was working there, there was only one JD Sports in the whole of England, or London. I'm sure it was London. I'm sure, it could have been England. It could have been England. I'm quite sure it was England. But maybe, I don't know. All I know is there was only one JD Sports in London. So you had two, so from what I'm hearing, you had two good jobs. JD Sports is a good job for your CV, Wimpy's a good job for your CV. Yeah. And again, cash in hand. Yeah, I'm sure, I used to get money in a little wage packet. Yeah, that makes about right, if I can relate to that. So you get cash in hand, yeah, so you get wage packets, right. So, what, alright, so you're working in Wimpy, you're working... Yeah, this was all while I was still kind of at school. But then when I left school, I went to, I went to, I don't know what they used to call, YTS scheme. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, mechanic. Because when I left school, we used to think like, what would you always need? It's funny you say that, because I've done the same thing. I've done a mechanics course for six months. Yeah, what was it? 20 pound a week, and that was on Big Macs first of all, yeah, in the garage with me and my Turkish friend, I remember working in the garage, and I was about 14 then, so it's kind of... YTS scheme, YTS scheme, them type used to get like 35, I think it was like 35 quid. A week. And yeah, 35 quid a week, and travel. That's good, maybe yours was a...
But when I worked in the garage, my family friend worked for the sake of his palms. I didn't like that though, because I did, I did, like the job wasn't that, yeah, but then there was me and another guy, which he just happened to be white, and my supervisor was a black guy, and I don't know, he used to just always have me doing like, go personingles or go to the shop and pick up the parts, yeah, and I used to think, huh? Why are you trying to take the meat for the shop, boy? Like, I've never really been the shop boy, innit? Like, if there's a group of people. You know what I'm trying to say? It's not me go to the shop, you understand? Like, but then, like, what it is, is, yeah, I'm going shop or going personingles and getting people lunch and coffees, I don't even drink coffee, yeah? And then fucking, this boy's learning how to bleed bricks, and he's learning how to change thing, innit? Like, why we're doing the white, yes, innit? So, like, I thought, like, yeah, that one didn't last long, innit? So, one day I might have got like 30 quid, yeah, go shop and get tea and coffee, and then I just went about my business, innit? Fuck that. Yeah, but if I'm not, like, being, like, signing, do you know what I mean? But because I'm going along with your story, you kind of give the wrong man the money, bear in mind you've been a racketeering student. Not like I give the wrong man the money, but I used to just think, like, I grew up in an era, like, we used to have cussing matches and that, and, like, where is this, like, man would just think that you're just getting buoyed, like, I'm just, but I wasn't a, even though I was a boy, like, in age, I was a boy, but, like, because of, like, things that I've been exposed to and things that I've seen in my little teenage and adolescent years, you get what I'm trying to say? I was a little bit more, you get what I'm saying? You can't send me shop. You talk about, like, send this fucking dick, like, pardon my language, send this guy to the shop. You get me? Like, who am I? You get me? And then I'm telling them, like, they always, because they take your order in it, like, what do you want for lunch? What do you want for lunch? There may be, like, eight, nine of us in the garage, yeah? Oh, so it's a big garage. Yeah, it was on Leverage Road. It was on Leverage Road, and it was the MOT on Leverage Road, and it used to have the car showroom attached to it. If you know, just as you're going up to, like, Woods, Whips Cross, or coming down from Whips Cross, it was on your right-hand side before you get to Chernall Street. You get what I'm trying to say? Yeah. So the man's money, did you obviously return or did you go back? Yeah, I didn't go back. I was gone. So you've kind of messed up a bit there because you stole from an employee. Well, I don't know. Maybe they... Yeah, but remember, I was owed wages, innit? Okay. So I didn't go back for my wages, innit? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you worked for 30... Yeah, that's 30 quid, innit? Remember, it's only 35 quid I'm getting. Yeah, that's my wages, innit? For the week.
I've been telling you I don't want to go short, but I want to learn how to bleed brakes in it. Like I was just doing like the minimum and I didn't think like that my tutor, because it was kind of like a school, it was extension to college kind of thing, innit? I don't think my tutor is showing me enough, do you know what I'm trying to say? Or even helping me or enabling me to learn. So basically, you took the release, you took the money, yeah? And you haven't gone back. Yeah. So you're 16, you're still 16 these times. Yeah. So rightly so, if I'm correct, you've had three employments right now, McDonald, Wimpy, JD Sports, and the Mechanics. Then I went to catering college. Me and my friend, what college? Oh, you went to Moofa Forest. And that's what you're doing yourself then, catering? Yeah, I always had a, like, rest in peace, my granny. Like my grand, like, obviously. Rest in peace, your granny. Yeah, like, so when I was living in my grandmother's house, yeah, that was kind of like, and I was a kid, that was like a hive of activity. Like there was so many different, there was my mom's friends, my aunt's friends, my uncle's friends, my grand's friends, my granddad's friends, my younger, my mom's youngest sister's friends. Yeah, so the house was always like a hive of activity, yeah, busy, yeah. And they always, the men was always playing dominoes, yeah. And if truth be told, when they used to go bang and slap the dominoes, it used to scare me, yeah. I was a little bit, like, I was frightened. Don't worry about that. Yeah, they're doing, they're doing, they're doing. I used to run under my grand's foot in the kitchen. So I always kind of loved being in the kitchen. You get what I'm saying? Because it's a safe, for me, that was a safe place. So that's even when I go back to school and doing child development, because it was part of the thing. There was a cooking entwined within the whole thing that used to do about children, used to do about sewing, used to do cooking. Do you get what I'm trying to say? That's when I was in secondary school. That's when I was in secondary school. That's when I had the child development. OK, so now when you went to college. Yeah, I went to catering. I went to catering. So me and my friend anyway, Gary, who is a chef. The days of what? Yeah, 16. Yeah, 16 years. So that's when I went to college. I went to first, I tried mechanics. Yeah, plus it was dirty. I was a man, I always used to like to be clean. I'm trying to say like my parents was kind of like everything.
So, mechanics didn't really fit in with me as well, because I want to wear my new creps. Next minute, they're getting car oil. It's dead on the laces. Yeah, so yeah, went to catering college. But then, outside of my desire to pursue a career, financial needs, innit? At this time, I kind of had a little bit of reputation. I had a reputation in my area and on the road. So, just so you're not going too fast, you're catering, you're enjoying catering, in college. Where's college? When did you finish the course in catering? The mechanics. I'm hearing you. I'm listening to you. You've done the mechanics. You've made some money from the mechanics. Cool. So, you finish the mechanics, you go to college, you meet up with some old friends, yeah? Because you've repeated the same name twice. No, no, no, meet up with them. We kind of like used to, that's my... No, you're friends, you know what I'm saying? But at the same time... So, we kind of like, we was... You know sometimes, yeah, that's what I'm saying. As players or friends, you might just go to college and he's doing that course, you do the same course as him. Yeah, he probably always wanted to do catering. No, no, no, let me finish. You grew up in your house with loads of uncles, aunties, rest in peace your granny. You highlighted your granny a few times as well, so that she's very meaningful to you. So, maybe the cooking and that was the influence through that. The dominoes was the... What's the dominoes part about? I missed that bit. My grandad. So, I still can't play dominoes till today. Right, but the hand slapping, you made that sound. So, they're on the table, innit? Yeah, so when they slapped on, what does that do for you? The fact that it's banging it. So, I was always... So, I was... So, bang the dominoes. So, what's going on there? And the loud cussing. No, there's nothing there. No, but you're... I'm just trying to... I'm trying to call in, but actually sometimes I might talk and just look over there. I'm just talking to the shadow. I don't know if you're talking to him. I'm trying to look who you're looking at. I'm saying, bro, who's he talking to? I don't know who he's talking to over there. I'm just making sure that that shadow ain't gonna just jump out. That's what my... That's my own... I saw a little glint over there. I'm gonna look over there. Cuz, I'm not complaining. All I want to know, why you're looking over there. I just want to know, you're in college. So, 16. There's all kinds of stuff. You're 16 in college and when... Like, you're 16 in college. Catering, yeah? You're catering now. Cool. But, you're... Could you keep letting me know little... But I'm not a...
No, but you don't let me finish. You don't let me finish. I'm asking you a question. You've got to answer the... It's not even a question. We're not having a police interview. We're having a conversation. Two bread, I know you're in it. We're having a proper conversation. I know you're in it or whatever. Leave college, but you're not actually doing just college. That's not your main occupation. Because if I'm listening to you, you told me you like nice things. You said you like little things. You said you couldn't afford these little things growing up. Yeah? Because if I'm listening to what you're saying, I'm listening in it. So now you're saying to me, Bob, I'm not really going to college. There's still outside influence, but you are a big influence on yourself. I'll just give you an example. Like I said in it, so I was working on the YTS, it was £35 a week. But on the top of the range trainers at that time, would have been £55. So you're short. You're short. You're short. You're short. So what do you... Is your mum supporting these expensive trainers? No, like I said, we never... I come with like, yeah, no. I was getting pocket money or... So you didn't get no pocket money and them things. So when you was back in school, and just try and answer it. I'm not saying you don't have to go and emphasize. Just try and stick to one. You go to school. You used to... You was a protector in school. Yeah? Yeah. So people used to give you money. Yeah, cool. And then you got expelled from that, being protected. Yeah, cool. Went to Tomwood. Yeah. No, listen. You went to Tomwood. So we're on the same page. You went to Tomwood. You didn't get expelled from Tomwood, but you went to move into a house in Hackney with you and your friends because your dad left the house. That's a lot of responsibility, for instance, for 15-year-olds. So basically, they're saying, take care of yourself. Yeah? Yeah. Cool. We thought we were big men. We wasn't really ready to leave under the roof of our mum and our mum's guidance. But the thing was, we wasn't adhering to the rules that were being set in the house. But the main, the important point I'm getting from what I'm hearing is that you're saying to me money and what things you could afford or couldn't afford was an expense you couldn't afford with the little earnings you was getting and your mum couldn't buy none of these things that you might have wanted. Yeah? Is that what I'm getting to? Yeah. Cool. So for you to add up your money from £35 to £55, if I'm good at... I was very good at maths in school. No, I'm not saying that as an example. No, I'm saying you're short. I was working all week and I couldn't even buy a pair of jeans. Even example we used... Yeah, but that wasn't really my... No, but you're short. Yeah. That's me, that's what I do. You're short. Yeah, yeah, no, man. You're short, yeah? Yeah. See, you're short. So what do you do to get the money to get these things? Yeah, there was a lot of little different stuff we used to do. I used to do... What did you do? Well, like I said, I'm not really here to glamorise. No, glamour is nothing but I need to know. I sold a little bit of ash and weed. Like that used to subsidise. Ooh, so you worked in the chemist and you sold some paracetamols and you sold some ibuprofens. Yes, we know.
So I couldn't worry if we are, we understand them languages. For the kids today, we know what you're talking about. Contraband stuff. But in another word, yeah, I know, a bit of cannabis. Sweet, sold a bit of cannabis. And then there was one or two little other earners, right? Do you know what I mean? Why are you on this topic? Sorry for cutting you, this is a big topic as well, because I've got a little... So see when you say you're, see that you said you were selling weed, yeah? Or cannabis, yeah? Sorry, you're selling cannabis, yeah? Is that, is that, do you see you doing weed? Because people smoke cannabis, yeah? They smoke sugar, they smoke cannabis. This is a long-term question. Is that a crime to you, selling cannabis? I'm just saying. To you, it is a crime. I know it's a crime, but I'm saying, did you see it as a crime when you... It was against the law, but I personally wouldn't view it as a crime. At the time when you was doing it. Yeah, it was a way of life, like, to me, even up to today, like... No, no, no, don't worry about it. Keep at 16, I know you're going to, because you're older, I know what I'm trying to say. No, that wasn't a crime, selling weed. No, what I'm saying to you, no, you're saying it wasn't a crime in your head, because it was a crime. It was against the law. Right, so it's a crime. But in my head... That's what I'm saying, in your head, you didn't see nothing wrong. In my head, this was just what people do, this is what we do, this is the way of life. Some people, some people, like, because, like I said... See, when you say it's a way of life, there might be 90% of people, 90% of people. What you want to say? Let me finish. They might not see that as a part of life. Being you 16, and someone else 16, and there's a load of different 16 people. Well, a lot of the community. You said community as well, what do you mean by that? Like, I can't forget. So what I'm saying is, when you say community, is that a racial thing? Was you selling weed just between your... No, no, no, this ain't got nothing to do with colour. So everyone was smoking weed? I'm from an era, white, black. So you all smoking weed? Like, there was, everyone lives on the council estate. So you all smoked weed? No, not everybody. But you were selling weed? Cannabis? Yes, but what I'm trying to say is... No, no, no, I know what you're trying to say. What I'm trying to get from you in a one, two sentences is, the people you're around, yeah? Your community. Yeah, my immediate community. Yes, your immediate community. And you've done a little thing. We all smoked weed, we all smoked ash. Forget that, it's cannabis. We know what we're talking about. We understand that level of cannabis, what cannabis controls. It controls them same drugs, innit? So we don't have to go eat individual one, but we know what they control, yeah? For the kids, they know what a drug is, yeah? But we say no to drugs, innit? We say no to drugs, yes, education. Is that correct? Education through the day. No, we say no to drugs, yes to education. Yes, correct? Definitely. Sweet. So because your environment, we was around, a lot of us was doing it, so it made...
Because remember, you started at a young age, you've got older people, people playing dominoes, people scrapping things. Remember, I'm not saying there's any contraband going on where you're watching dominoes, hear me out. But from your, no, that's privacy. Back to you. What I'm saying is, the long and short of it is, you know, that because of maybe when you're around, when you're doing this, earning a little weed because you're earning a little money, because you want to get extra stuff. Remember, you're doing it to earn a bit more money to add up your wages, if I'm correct, so you can get these nicer things that you can't afford. To tell you the honest, honest truth, I was probably doing it to subsidize my own habit, because I couldn't afford to buy a draw weed every day. So you was cannabis, so you also wanted to, so it's better, okay, so to get your own little, to get your free little pot. Yeah, I'd buy it or I'd get a portion, and then, do you know what I mean? I was smoking for free, and then I'd sell, and I'd see profit as well. Cool, so now, moving forward, if we can go a little, not too fast, 16, 17, transition, you've got a girlfriend these times? There was a little bit to go back, there was like missing that to jump onto 17. No, obviously, no, no, do you know why I said that? Because sometimes I'm saying, right, do you remember you having a little bath, you going through transition? No, I haven't really, I haven't really said. No, I haven't gone into that, because I went to the college, because I remember one thing you emphasized, you said, remember you're well-dressed, you're well-kept, which is important, you did that mechanics because it's a dirty job, you know that's all greasy, that's not your thing, cooking is your thing. Then you went to that little cool thing, where a lot of girls was doing that thing, I remember you've changed, you was attracted to the girls, and you're attracted to girls, you know what I'm trying to say, but you're... Well, not all of us, but yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%, everyone's got preferences, but at the same time... I live and let live. You give me jokes, yeah, 100%. You get me, no, but one time I would, like, even when I go back to, I've been to my food, no. Did you go to boy school, did you go to boy school? No, I went to a mixed school. Sweet, so you're always going to be mixed right now, cool, you're not going to get influenced by nothing when you're in a mixed school, sweet. So now you go into college, yeah, you go into that little bakery thing, that's working out, but you're still doing the road, you're doing a little bit of wheeling and dealing with the weed to get yourself a free little smoke along the way, and get the little things you can't afford, yeah, because we're not all coming from them expensive households out here. It's cold in here, that's why I still got my jacket. No problem, that's why. I'm going to put my hat next to my... I'm born in February and I don't mind it, I don't mind the weed, I need it. I'm born in January, but still... Oh, there you go, it's different, right, so 17 now, 17, boom, you're in and out of college, you're doing a bit of weed, sweet. I need to know, so to be fair, your life is, you've had enough, you're doing, I mean, you've worked, GD Sports, Wimpy, you've been a mechanic, you've gone to college, so me just listening, life's alright. Forget the little signs where you can't afford everything, because that's like, you'll be getting everything you want, so life... What I wanted to say to you was, I didn't live on Catwalk or Fatshark's estate, but in those estates and within that community...
You had people that used to just sell weed and hash. Can I say one more thing though? Because you're doing it and it's not a problem. Even when we're talking and you know what it is, even if I went to talk to some kids at school, we just talk about the whole thing because they understand where it's at. They would just sell cannabis. Literally, I could go to their house and they'd just be waking up. One thing I'm saying again, and I'm going to be privileged by having a proper conversation. I don't want to care about the asses. You could have got them from the sweet shop. No, I'm just trying to say is, they were living what I would have seen as a comfortable lifestyle, solely from cannabis. I'm just trying to say, to the people and the people who was in that environment, that was just a way of life. And I understand and I know it's against the laws, but then that's going into politics and I don't really want to start talking. Like it's full politics, isn't it? The politics is, I want to do the 17. No, it's full politics. It's full politics because we all know, everyone goes to work now and it's not like before. No, I'm talking about now. 17 years of age. You have to pay your taxes. You're going somewhere else. You're going somewhere else. Like the people. But you're going somewhere else. You're talking about the man in the estate where you're going to someone's house. You're telling me about everyone I want to know about you. Yes, I was never really political orientated. Political? What's political got to do with it? No, because it's politics. And I would have thought at 16, this is how I thought. Like, who is this to say this? Like, do you get what I'm trying to say? I was always a little bit rebellious. I was always a little bit mischievous. But then I always like when you start getting older and money. Yeah. Hey, let's stop going mad and you're going and you're not listening. I'm asking you at 17 years of age. 16 and 17. Money was a major issue. Right, so. Especially if you are not working. Right, so, but you was working. No, I wasn't. Why? You decided to stop working. You said to me you was working, yeah? JDs and you decided to run off with the waitress and the mechanics money. But then I also had a life outside of work. So what was you doing? You said you was doing a little business. Whatever I could do to subsidize my income. And I was kind of like intrigued by the people that I didn't see going to work. And that had all of these trappings and things that I wanted. Sorry, so what's trappings? The nice trainers. Oh, material. Yeah, the material. So the world was trappings. Look, look, look, look, look, look, look. Like I said, I was a little bit of a mischievous, rebellious. One more thing I'm going to say. You're 96, yeah? Not 96, go on, that's me, 96, 16. You're 16 in what year is this? 16 in 1991.
1991, you're 16. What's the music from them days? The music influences in your head? Are you following music? Yeah, I was very big into music. And if you can, just give me three of your best influences. I don't want to hear the whole... Michael Jackson. Speak up, Michael. Just three. Three of your best. Well, Michael Jackson's always going to be there. My biggest thing. But Mike, don't go overboard on Michael. Let's just say Bob Marley. Right, that's Bob Marley, yeah. Yeah, and if I even say that 1991, it would have to be Shabba Ranks. So that's your thing. So I can... What am I going to say? Michael Jackson. Or Ninja Man. Brother, I'll get you free. You're done. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. One second. But Shabba Ranks. Yeah, let's just say Shabba Ranks, because Ninja Man was my favourite DJ. So Shabba Ranks took it kind of like to the heights that everybody should... Shabba Ranks, Bob Marley, and Michael Jackson. Now, even looking at them three, you picked out the King of Pop. Yeah. Yeah, Michael. Man, I'm just saying Bob Marley. Yeah, why are you laughing? No, I'm not laughing. No, because I'm laughing. I'll tell you why I'm laughing. I'm going to give you why I'm laughing. I'm going to tell you exactly why I'm laughing, because it's a characteristic. Watch this. Bob Marley, Superman, yeah. Yeah. King of Reggae, yeah. Cool. And then Shabba Ranks, yeah. Yeah. That's it. King of Dancehall. King of Dancehall. So, because I can't know you too well. My thing, that's where my thing is set, innit? So I can say the shower... No, it's not about the top. The top moves you're listening to. The top moves... No, but I always wanted to... Like, look, I always... I wanted to be a professional footballer at the top of my game. But what I'm trying to say... I wanted to be a top chef. I wanted... So when you say that about... See, that's cool. I never was in nothing to come second or third. All right, then watch this then. I'm hearing you. I'm trying to say, like, if I wanted to do something, I wanted to be the best. But what I'm trying to say, yeah, because I know, hopefully everyone wants to be win first. I don't want to be surprised. I want no one to want to race and finish second or third, but we want to compete first and foremost. Yeah. But I'm listening to you, but what I'm trying to say is I understand the little football show you went on, but I'm getting into... What I'm not getting from you is that when you're 16, for someone that wants to be football, hear me out, just football, you've got to remember you can do a lot of things, innit? But what I'm saying, you started off, remember where you started off, innit? And I'm just saying, let's go a bit early. Got expelled from one school. You start working in JDs. It doesn't look like you stayed long because I'm working at your age, but you're telling me, yeah? That Wimpy didn't last long and you used someone else's DL. So you're very crafty with what you're doing. I'm just saying, I'm listening to you. I'm not saying you're crafty, but you're trying to work a way out to get around things without doing too much. That's what I'm getting from you. Because you've also seen people to get where you want. Sweet. So, nah, you... Remember, we had a discussion about...
You're bad. You see you're doing wrong. But you acknowledge that doing things illegally, they're wrong, yeah? So even though they was doing their little thing, the older peers you were seeing, let me finish, let me finish, the older peers was doing their little thing, yeah? You was looking at it like, rah, they've got, in my, this is what I'm asking, you can answer this, they look like they're getting more joy or they're looking more pretty than just say like your mum who can't afford things for you, no disrespect to mummy, but she's working, she's legal. So these people you're looking, they're not doing what your mum's doing. Yeah, no. They're not doing what your mum's doing. Yeah. No? No. So your mum's doing the normal, the right way. Nine to five. The right way. Yeah, cool, your mum's doing the right way, these guys are doing the wrong way, you're looking at the wrong way and you're saying you like the wrong way then. That's what I'm getting from you. Yeah. Cool. Like my whole family, really. I'm not interested in your whole family, I'm interested in you right now. No, but I'm just trying to say, I always, like most of my majority or all of my family, are working, that's what I've grown up seeing. Nine to five. Yeah, working. Right, and in that world it looked a bit of a struggle. Yeah. If you're being truthful to yourself, you can only be strong. Yeah, I get up every day and slog and do the same things over and over again. But is it also correct though, because you live with your mum, you live with your mum, you don't live with these people. Just say yes or no for one second. No. So you don't live with these people, so you're seeing them for a short period of time, yeah? Yeah. And in that short period... This is from the outside looking in. Yeah, outside looking in. So outside looking in, it looks lovely, yeah? They look pretty. And because you live with your mum, you can see the everyday struggles that a person that goes to work is going through. Yeah? That's what I'm getting from you. Cool. So you as a young man with a little brother, you're the oldest of the brothers. Yeah. Yeah? Obviously, you've got stepbrothers once again, I appreciate that, rest in peace one of them, but he doesn't like to live with you. Yeah, I've also got... Yeah, go on, go on. But the other twin didn't live with you. So what I'm saying is, how you grew up immediately, wake up every day, mum and brother. Yeah, is that correct? Yeah. But you know you've got siblings outside, but they're not living under your roof with you. No, I didn't. Maybe not at that age. Maybe not at that 17, no. Right, so 17. Yeah, I did. No, because they're 14. So my brother that lives with my mum... The brother that lives with your mum? My brother that lives with my mum, he's seven years younger than me. Right, so you're the oldest brother by a bit of a distance. Yeah, and then my twin brothers... From your dad's... From my dad's side, they're 14 years younger than me. So if I'm... Yeah. I don't even need to work out a calculator. The first early years growing up, you just remember being you and your brother. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Cool. No, the first early years was just me, really. And I think maybe that's where a bit more of my rebellious and naughty and mischievous side came out once my brother was born, in all honesty. Because why I say that, and it's no excuse, I'm not trying to make an excuse for nothing or apportionate the blame to anyone, yeah?
That was Dad, my mum's husband. Well, they married 30-odd years ago now. They just had their 30th wedding anniversary the other day. Congratulations. Right, so he was there in my life present from the age of four when my mum moved from Walthamstow, my grandparents' house, to Leyenstow. Yeah? And then once my brother was born, do you know what I'm trying to say, subconsciously or maybe consciously, I started to feel a little bit of a difference in it. Because your mum's got another brother named Audiat. Nah, my little brother's the main... Taking the main concentration. Plus, his mum and his dad are there. Because I was already aware of the fact that I really was coming from a single-parent family compared to some of my friends who had their mum and dad present. Do you know what I'm trying to say? So I had friends that were from the council estate and single parents just like me and they were doing fine and a lot of them have thrived in life. Rightly so. But I was always aware of, do you know what I'm trying to say, the ones that had their mum and dad, they were more kind of, let's just say, affluent. Structured, cool. Yeah. Without me trying to push you from, I'm understanding where you are, I'm just trying seven in, right, you're at 17 again, you've seen inferences, your little brother's taking over the landline in your house from mum. Yes, I was trying to do little things, do you know what I'm trying to say? No, no, no, no. Maybe getting in trouble, that was a way of getting attention, do you know what I'm trying to say? Maybe, I'm not saying that was, but I could really say or attribute it back to that kind of time. So what I'm going to say to you now. Even though I always had the mischievous little... See what you say, see what I say mischievous then, if I look up the word mischievous, mischievous could mean anything, yeah, cool. So what I'm getting from you, the little contraband thing, sweet. You done a little contraband. All right, shall I show you about mischievous? No, no, no, no, no. Let me just tell you something. No, I need to ask you a question, I need to ask you a serious question, I don't need to go, I want you to be 100% honest. I will still tell you. Right, so mischievous will come under loads of things. Now you know, you didn't use mischievous when you was distributing, when you was trying to get a free bit of smoke, yeah, because you was sending a bit of contraband, you said, to earn a little extra money to get the free smoke. That's what you said. Yeah. But you didn't put that down as mischievous, I'm just saying. No. Right, because you didn't see it as you, it was a real crime, because you were seeing other people doing it, even though you knew it was wrong to do, that's what you're saying. So back to now, so now you're doing mischievous stuff, emphasize what's mischievous. Well, when we was kids, you used to get these... When you were kids...
What I'm just trying to say about the mischievous. So the mischievous part was like when I was young, we used to steal like, we used to steal like people's shops. You used to buy a bottle of drink, fizzy drink, yeah? And you take it back and you get money for the bottle, right? So then when you go to the sweet shop, they've got their empty bottles. Fizzy drink, white lemonade, they made all flavours. Cherryade, cola, orangeade. So someone would be doing that, say yeah, yeah, and just get one from the top shelf. And the rest of us or others, we would thief the bottle, we'd nip the empty bottles. So I'd say that was like a little bit mischievous. What was you getting from the empty bottles? Well, then you take them to another shop and you get money. Oh, so he's paying you for the plastic bottles? No, glass bottles. So he's getting paid for nicking glass bottles then? Yeah, or you nick them off the milk of people's doorstep. So you're selling milk and you're nicking bottles then? Not the milk, the empty bottles. So what I'm trying to go with, hi, so you're 16 years old. But you might even steal the milk. So you're being mischievous. Is that, what I want to get, is that getting you these trainers? No, but that used to give us, used to get money to go arcade, McDonald's. Do you know what I mean? So you're just doing a little shopping. Yeah, you know, like money to go cinema and you get what I'm saying? And even be able to take a girl and pay for the girl to go. And this can happen from how much you get, just curious, how much you get from 10 bottles? I can't remember. I can't remember, but it was money for empty bottles. It was enough for that your family would buy them and take them back. So you're earning good money then basically? Well, yeah, depends on how many bottles you get, innit? All right, cool, yeah, sweet. So that's right. But if you can manage to teeth or create, imagine you teeth or create, you might get something like four quid. But mind you, do you know why I'm saying this? Because I remember when I'm born, remember, how old are you again? 51. What do you mean 51 now? 51. I don't remember nothing. Yeah, nearly 50. Me growing up, I don't know no joy from getting empty bottles. I'm just saying, being me 16, because it's different generations, that's why I'm trying to work out. What's the difference? I mean, a lot of difference. I'm 46, you've got five years. Yeah, five years. So then five years, things changed. Yeah, but like you've got older siblings, innit? Your older siblings.
They would know. They would definitely know. Do you remember, like you said, R. White's lemonade, like you know about R. White's lemonade, but then if you knew R. White's lemonade, while that was flourishing, because they still make R. White's lemonade today, but it's just not in a glass bowl, innit? But like when that company was R. White's, R. White's lemonade, with the advert, it had the advert. I don't remember the advert. Well, there you go, that's what I'm trying to say. So when they had the advert, that time they were thriving, innit? This is the company that are giving you money back for empty bottles. You see what I'm trying to say? They were amongst many, but R. White's was the main one. So see, let me just, so let me just, so you're mischievous, that's one of the works you do. Yeah, we do little things, little mischievous, like playing knock-knock ginger. Alright, cool, but that's what I'm trying to say, see all these things, these are different things that if I'm growing up, if I can relate to this, we call these sillies, nothing's going on there. Yeah. It's nice, this is nice. Yeah, mischievous, because when you're doing bottles, that was a little money. Yeah, but then knock-knock ginger, it's just like knock-knock ginger, innit? So you're doing knock-knock ginger at 17 years of age? No, not at 17, no, I'm talking about, I was bringing you up to the stage. Oh, okay, so when the bottles were done, so when you were doing the bottles. So when you want to jump to 17, yeah? No, when the bottles. There's things that I haven't told you that's gone on at 15 and things that have gone on at 16 before I can even reach 17. No, you're missing the trick, you're missing the trick, because I want to know, you said you're doing mischievous things, I've just said 16, you're supposed to correct me and say no, I've done them at 7, 8, 9, 10, so you told me when you've done bottles, mate, I don't know, I'm asking you. Yeah, bottles was like before like primary school, before junior school, before junior school, 11.
